quote:
Here's the thing though, and this is where Pope Francis really needs to clarify, the priest is not blessing the actions of the businessman. He's blessing the businessman. Is the priest blessing the relationship or is he simply blessing the people in the relationship?

Gah you guys aren't even trying. GO READ THE DOCUMENT. They have come out and clarified multiple times, but the document clearly says it's not blessing the union, it's blessing the people. Nevertheless, people wanted to point out the use of the word "couple" as if it undermines the clear statement at the beginning of the document that says (below is an actual quote from the document):

quote:
the Church does not have the power to impart blessings on unions of persons of the same sex.

Then two weeks ago, the Pope came out and said it again just to make sure the point was clear:

Pope Francis: Bless the persons, not the union

Thing is, no one reports it. And none of the irrational Catholic-hating people on this board care to actually read anything except the BS gossip.

Excerpt from the link above for those who don't want to click:

quote:
The purpose of the “pastoral and spontaneous blessings” discussed in the Declaration, the Pope stressed, is to “concretely show the closeness of the Lord and the Church to all those who, finding themselves in different situations, ask for help to continue—sometimes to begin—a journey of faith.”

In this regard, the Pope emphasized two points.

Firstly, he said, “these blessings, outside of any liturgical context and form, do not require moral perfection to be received.”

Secondly, he noted, “when a couple spontaneously approaches [a minister] and asks for them, he is not blessing the union, but simply the people who together have requested it.”

“Not the union,” the Pope stressed, “but the persons, naturally taking into account the context, sensitivities, the places where one lives, and the most appropriate ways to do it.”

This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 3:46 pm

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Posted by MemphisGuy

Member since Nov 2023

3483 posts

Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:57 pm to CatholicLSUDude

quote:
he document clearly says it's not blessing the union, it's blessing the people

Who are openly and defiantly continuing to live in open sin. And, by virtue of that fact, they clearly ARE blessing the union. Or do they wink at them when doing the blessing as if to say "We know what you are doing, but it's okay"?

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Posted by Lightning

Texas

Member since May 2014

2300 posts

Posted on 2/11/24 at 6:14 pm to CatholicLSUDude

quote:
Gah you guys aren't even trying. GO READ THE DOCUMENT. They have come out and clarified multiple times, but the document clearly says it's not blessing the union, it's blessing the people.

Then two weeks ago, the Pope came out and said it again just to make sure the point was clear:

Pope Francis: Bless the persons, not the union

Thing is, no one reports it. And none of the irrational Catholic-hating people on this board care to actually read anything except the BS gossip.

The Pope can say whatever he wants but what do his actions show?

When a priest chooses to blatantly defy what the Pope says and in fact is blessing the union: Rev. Jan Korditschke decided to hold blessings for LGBTQ+ couples in Berlin “because the love of homosexuals is something good.

“I stand behind what I am doing, though it is painful for me that I cannot do it in tune with the church leadership,” Korditschke, who works for the city’s Jesuit diocese. LINK

Surely this priest would be pastorally corrected, as even he acknowledges his actions are not in tune with church leadership, despite the vow of obedience he took? Well no, apparently not because this priest has been saying these things for at least 3 years now and he’s still a chaplain and teacher at a Catholic spiritual retreat center.

There’s also this woman, Theresia Härtel, a sexologist and pastoral worker in the Berlin area. Härtel serves as the contact for queer-sensitive pastoral care within Bernhard Lichtenberg, the parish that Herz Jesu is within.
Härtel wears her passion for sex education on her ears, in the form of clay earrings in the shape of an anatomically correct vulva, swinging as she bustles through the church’s courtyard, greeting nearly every person that passes by.

In addition to her queer-sensitive pastoral work, Härtel leads a youth group at the Herz Jesu church. LINK

The Pope does not have to allow this, the church has a hierarchy and its clergy take vows of obedience. These people are flagrantly disobeying Church doctrine while proudly giving interviews and posing for pictures at their Church-owned offices. Are the clergy defrocked? Lay people fired? Are we to assume Pope Francis does not know about the statements and actions of these people, despite clear evidence that he is aware?

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Posted by Toomer Deplorable

Team Bitter Clinger

Member since May 2020

17976 posts

Posted on 2/11/24 at 8:51 pm to CatholicLSUDude

quote:
GO READ THE DOCUMENT. They have come out and clarified multiple times, but the document clearly says it's not blessing the union, it's blessing the people.

I’ve read the document as have other Catholic scholars. And many Catholic scholars — and much of the Bishopdom in Africa and Eastern Europe — have voiced concerns that Fiducia Supplicans unnecessarily raises serious doctrinal questions among the faithful.

“The ambiguity of [Fiducia Supplicans], which is open to many interpretations and manipulations, causes much confusion among the faithful and I believe that, as pastors of the Church in Africa, we must express clarity on this question in order to give a clear direction to our Christians…” Cardinal Fridolin Ambongo Besungu.

[Fiducia Supplicans] is a heresy that seriously undermines the Church, the Body of Christ, because it is contrary to the Catholic faith and Tradition….” Cardinal Robert Sarah.

One of the primary objections to the document is that just two years ago, the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith clearly stated that the Church did not have the power to give blessings to same-sex unions. If nothing changed from the earlier Responsum, then why issue the newer declaration?

If blessing a couple in an “irregular” relationship, are you not blessing their union? It’s a horribly worded document that raises more questions than answers and needlessly sows confusion and divides the faithful.

Everyone is focusing on same-sex relationships yet it specifically references “irregular” relationships. What exactly is meant by “irregular” relationships?

Does this include “irregular” relationships such as unmarried cohabiting couples, fornicating couples who do not live together, married adulterous couple or even polygamous relationships? Why even put the Church in a position to untie that Gordian knot?

Further, Catholic Priests already have the pastoral discretion to bless homosexuals since they have the pastoral discretion to bless all sinners so Fiducia Supplicans is an extraneous document. The confusion over Fiducia Supplicans thus arises from the Curia itself.

Yet this Jesuit Pope accuses anyone who has objections to the document as hypocrites while he himself demonizes those who have sincere yet grave objections to the document. I once gave Francis the benefit of the doubt yet at this late stage I’m tired of hearing this bitter and small-minded man talk out of both sides of his mouth after repeatedly issuing polemical statements and delving into casuistry to defend those statements.

I am especially tired of the hallelujah chorus in the Church who continue to apologize for this Pope’s demonization of anyone who dares to question his controversial proclamations. Is it too much to ask that Pope Francis for once practice what he preaches?