Started By
Message
re: Jeff Schultz is such a hack
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:51 pm to RD Dawg
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:51 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Sorry,Coppy and his moves seem to get a pass with 90% Atlanta sports media while Frank Wren was universally condemned and scapegoated.
Because so far Coppy has done exactly what he said he would do. Build the best farm system in baseball and make the team competitive in year 3 with a mix of young and old. He's literally made 1 bad trade out of about 15 and he has us situated to be able to bring up multiple young prospects at SP and in the field as well as have a surplus to use to bring in needed veterans/MLB proven players in years 4 and 5. Will it work? Who knows, but he's executed the plan he pretty publically made 4 years ago. Now we will see if the fruits of the labor live up to the billing.
Wren destroyed the farm system and signed guys to terrible, long, expensive contracts with a payroll that could not sustain any bad deals. And Wren wasn't condemned until the last few years of his tenure. He was generally given positive reviews early on, until the full brunt of his draft strategy and destruction of the scouting system was exposed.
Seriously, go back and look at our drafts from 2010 to 2014
2010
CA pick, 35th - Matt Lipka
2nd round - Todd Cunningham
2nd round - Andrelton Simmons
3rd round - Joe Leonard
4th round - David Filak
2011
1st round, 28th - Sean Gilmartin
2nd round - Nick Ahmed
3rd round - Kyle Kubitza
4th round - J.R. Graham
5th round - Nick DeSantiago
2012
1st round, 21st - Lucas Sims
2nd round - Alex Wood
3rd round - Bryan De La Rosa
4th round - Justin Black
5th round - Blake Brown
2013
1st round - Jason Hursh
2nd round - Victor Caratini
3rd round - Carlos Salazar
4th round - Tanner Murphy
5th round - Mikey Reynolds
2014
1st round - Braxton Davidson
2nd round - Garrett Fulencheck
3rd round - Max Povse
4th round - Chad Sobotka
5th round - Chris Diaz
That is a mother frickin DISASTER, especially for an organization that doesn't have the money to throw at established veterans. We literally drafted 3, maybe 4 full-time MLB players (Simmons, Ahmed, Sims, Wood, Gilmartin barely as a long reliever and possibly Caratini) in the 1st 5 rounds of 5 straight drafts, and at best 1-2 impact players. Even worse, the majority of those guys aren't even AA/AAA players now, they were just total bust disasters. That is a total an utter failure and destroys organizations.
We HAVE to win with young, controllable players. Coppy brought back Brian Bridges and allowed our scouting department to do what they do.
There is a reason Wren hasn't really sniffed a GM job since he left. And, if Coppy decided to leave tomorrow, he'd be in the mix for the first 5 GM jobs that opened.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 12:58 pm
2
Posted on 7/27/17 at 1:10 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Coppy's drafts
2015
1st, 14th - Kolby Allard (MLB #25 Overall)
1st, 28th - Mike Soroka (MLB #38 Overall)
CBA - Austin Riley (.251, .714 OPS in A+/AA)
2nd - Lucas Herbert (.258, .717 OPS in A)
CBB - AJ Minter (4.32 ERA, injured)
2016
1st - Ian Anderson (MLB #57 Overall)
CBA - Joey Wentz (2.51 ERA in A)
2nd - Kyle Muller (4.09 ERA in R)
CBB - Brett Cumberland (.264/.889 OPS in A/A+)
3rd - Drew Harrington (4.50 ERA in A+)
4th - Bryse Wilson (2.81 ERA in A)
2017
1st - Kyle Wright (MLB #35 Overall)
2nd - Drew Waters (.307/.862 OPS in GCL/R)
Wren did a decent job internationally (signed Albies and Acuna) and did a very good job finding cast off arms for the pen, but between the contracts and drafts we were about to go down a dark path with no way out once Heyward and some others left. We had no assets and no way to obtain assets.
2015
1st, 14th - Kolby Allard (MLB #25 Overall)
1st, 28th - Mike Soroka (MLB #38 Overall)
CBA - Austin Riley (.251, .714 OPS in A+/AA)
2nd - Lucas Herbert (.258, .717 OPS in A)
CBB - AJ Minter (4.32 ERA, injured)
2016
1st - Ian Anderson (MLB #57 Overall)
CBA - Joey Wentz (2.51 ERA in A)
2nd - Kyle Muller (4.09 ERA in R)
CBB - Brett Cumberland (.264/.889 OPS in A/A+)
3rd - Drew Harrington (4.50 ERA in A+)
4th - Bryse Wilson (2.81 ERA in A)
2017
1st - Kyle Wright (MLB #35 Overall)
2nd - Drew Waters (.307/.862 OPS in GCL/R)
Wren did a decent job internationally (signed Albies and Acuna) and did a very good job finding cast off arms for the pen, but between the contracts and drafts we were about to go down a dark path with no way out once Heyward and some others left. We had no assets and no way to obtain assets.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 2:40 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Seriously, go back and look at our drafts from 2010 to 2014
Go back and look which farm system produced the most
MLB players in that time period.
quote:
He's literally made 1 bad trade out of about 15
Do what? Exactly who did we get for Justin Upton?
How bout Alex Wood? Kimbrell?(He gets a slight pass because we were able to unload BJ)Jason Heyward?
Andrelton Simmons?
What exactly do we have to show for those guys?
Sean Newcombe and Dansby Swanson??
One bad trade? C'mon dude,I get that we needed reload the fram system and dump salaries but we have got to start seeing more from all the young arms acquired and drafted,
Posted on 7/27/17 at 2:57 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Do what? Exactly who did we get for Justin Upton?
- Jace Peterson, who is a AAAA player
- Mallex Smith, who we then flipped to the Mariners for Luiz Gohara, who is now possibly the best LHP in the minor leagues and could be in Atlanta next season
- Dustin Peterson, who if not for an injury would probably be our 4th outfirelder this year
- International bonus pool money, which helped us sign one of if not the best international prospect groups of all-time last year
And, Justin Upton had 1 year left on his contract with ZERO chance we were going to resign him.
quote:
How bout Alex Wood?
Terrible trade, no doubt
quote:
Kimbrell?(He gets a slight pass because we were able to unload BJ)
Not as good as I would have liked, but we unloaded BJ's contract and had no need for a great closer. Probably would have been nice to wait and get more for him, but could have been much worse.
quote:
Jason Heyward?
Um, we got Shelby Miller, who was fantastic for 1 year and then was flipped for Ender Inciarte and Dansby Swanson. Again, we traded 1 year of Heyward for 2 future cornerstones of our lineup.
quote:
Andrelton Simmons?
Sean Newcomb is a talented kid with mixed results against the scariest lineups in baseball so far. I'm relatively happy with his progress.
quote:
What exactly do we have to show for those guys?
See above, quite a bit.
quote:
we have got to start seeing more from all the young arms acquired and drafted
Did you read the other page? The young arms are now in AA and AAA and have been fantastic. Newcomb is now in the rotation. Albies and Acuna are close to being here. The long wait is about to end and we can see if all our shiny toys are worth it, but it's silly to act like it's a failure because the 19 and 20 year olds haven't come to the majors yet.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 3:02 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Go back and look which farm system produced the most
Oh come on, you aren't seriously arguing that Wren built a quality farm system are you? Heyward and Freeman were both fantastic, though Heyward was a Top 10 pick so that is what you expect there. Simmons was a nice find. Alex Wood has had a nice half a season, but I'm ready to proclaim him a perennial all-star. Everybody else is a league regular at best and at worst a AAAA player like Sean Gilmartin.
The farm system when Wren was fired was a disaster, and we were about to lose Justin Upton and Jason Heyward to free agency with no chance to sign or develop replacements. We were going to be a 77-85 win team for the next decade with no shot at winning anything that mattered.
Personally, I was tired of that shite. We'd been doing it for a decade outside of 2012 (which of course ended with a dud). It was time to start over and try to win a frickin World Series, not be happy winning 86 games.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 5:17 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Personally, I was tired of that shite. We'd been doing it for a decade outside of 2012 (
Huh? Was 2011 and 2013 some type of fluke.Yea,I kinda like finishing 1st in the division
, you aren't seriously arguing that Wren built a quality farm system are you? [/quote]
Did Simmons,Kimbrell,Gattis,Medlen,Beachy and Freeman magically appear from nowhere?Once again,how in the world did the Braves to produce so many MLB players back then if Wren was so awful?
When and where are all those prospects we traded for going to make an impact?
Onice again,I get tearing down a team and trading impact players but good God,lets have SOMETHING to show for it beyond a potentially good SS and a lefty with a mid 90's fastball.
At best,Coppy geta a "C" for his on the field product.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 5:26 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 6:07 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Yea,I kinda like finishing 1st in the division
And having no legitimate shot at a world series? Because we didn't. And we were about to lose most of those guys with no in house replacements.
quote:
lets have SOMETHING to show for it beyond a potentially good SS and a lefty with a mid 90's fastball.
At best,Coppy geta a "C" for his on the field product.
But they aren't supposed to be there yet. If in 2 years we are still winning 77 games I'm all in with you. It's just not reasonable to be ok with a rebuild but not be ok with waiting on 18 year olds to get to 21 before we have them in Atlanta. That's all.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 6:10 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Simmons,Kimbrell,Gattis,Medlen,Beachy and Freeman
Our system dramatcally fell off after that wave of kids came through. Again, we were about to lose Heyward and Upton and our pitching was already razor thin. The minor league roster was dogshite and we couldn't afford to sign free agents. We were down to Gattis, Freeman, Simmons, LaStella, Peraza, Kimbrel, Chris Johnson, Teheran, Wood and.......then what? Povse? Sims? Weber? Gant? Who is in the outfield? Terdo? Cunningham? Mycal Jones?
We were headed for a cliff.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 6:16 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 6:17 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I'm not trying to be a dick, it's been super frustrating for 3 years but we're almost to the fun part. Just hope a few of these kids pan out.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 7:03 am to RD Dawg
quote:
When and where are all those prospects we traded for going to make an impact?
In the next couple of years. They're all 19-20 year old prospects. Or would you prefer we just throw them in to the lineup before they're ready?
quote:
At best,Coppy geta a "C" for his on the field product.
During a rebuild? I'll fricking take it.
Also, the fact that we've even had wild card conversations this year is insane. How in the frick can you not see how much better this team is going to be?
Posted on 7/28/17 at 8:19 am to gatorhata9
quote:
They're all 19-20 year old prospects. Or would you prefer we just throw them in to the lineup before they're ready?
Yep, next year is the start of the bearing fruit part of the rebuild.
C - Flowers
3B - Comargo/Ruiz/trade
SS - Swanson
2B - Albies
1B - Freeman
LF - Kemp
CF - Inciarte
RF - Acuna
SP - Folty
SP - Teheran
SP - trade
SP - Newcomb
SP - Sims/Soroka/Gohara
At some in the next 12 months in addition to those guys we should see Allard, Peterson, Jackson, Demeritte, Cumberland, Minter and possibly Wright, Toussaint and Fried. And some of those guys will be shipped off for specific help in the rotation, 3B or LF.
We are just now entering the days of judging the on field results of the rebuild.
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 8:20 am
Posted on 7/28/17 at 9:05 am to SummerOfGeorge
Are we still pegging Minter as the future closer?
Posted on 7/28/17 at 9:46 am to gatorhata9
quote:
Are we still pegging Minter as the future closer?
I think so - at the very least a setup guy. I'm really excited about our young bullpen arms.
Vizcaino, Minter, Morris, L. Jackson, Hursh, Dirks, Freeman.
Posted on 8/4/17 at 8:14 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Back to the original topic for a sec.
About 10 years ago, whenever that UGA game was where Stafford hit Henderson in the corner to end the game, we rolled into town from Atlanta and hit Archibalds for some to go. Of course there was a good long wait and someone in there was bitching fairly loudly about how long they had waited, how bad the service was, never had happened before, etc. Really making an arse of himself.
You guessed it...it was Jeff Schultz.
About 10 years ago, whenever that UGA game was where Stafford hit Henderson in the corner to end the game, we rolled into town from Atlanta and hit Archibalds for some to go. Of course there was a good long wait and someone in there was bitching fairly loudly about how long they had waited, how bad the service was, never had happened before, etc. Really making an arse of himself.
You guessed it...it was Jeff Schultz.
Posted on 8/4/17 at 8:35 pm to gatorhata9
In the next couple of years. They're all 19-20 year old prospects. Or would you prefer we just throw them in to the lineup before they're ready?
No, I'd prefer we get future fricking impact players for what we GAVE away,which we did.Good God,is there ANYTHING that Coppy does that you can find fault with?
No, I'd prefer we get future fricking impact players for what we GAVE away,which we did.Good God,is there ANYTHING that Coppy does that you can find fault with?
This post was edited on 8/4/17 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 8/20/17 at 9:08 pm to SummerOfGeorge
The AJC is one of the worse papers in the country. Thats what happens when there is no competition. Their sports section has sucked at least since the 80s when Furman Bisher stopped being editor. Shultz is terrible. Beyond terrible.
Im not surprised about the MB stadium roof. I think that thing will get used once, break and never be opened again.
Im not surprised about the MB stadium roof. I think that thing will get used once, break and never be opened again.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 10:19 pm to gatorhata9
quote:
How in the frick can you not see how much better this team is going to be?
Sorry,maybe you can but I certainly can't
Where exactly has the improvement or even development
of this year's team been?
Posted on 8/23/17 at 10:23 am to SummerOfGeorge
No one comes close in hack land to Mark Bradley
Page 2 of 2
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News