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re: Talent vs Experience
Posted on 7/27/14 at 2:20 pm to deeprig9
Posted on 7/27/14 at 2:20 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Agree Rooster.
However, Spur's recent jabs at Saban and recruiting and SECC's would lead me to believe he thinks he could do more with more, if that makes sense.
It makes sense insomuch as Spurrier sees Saban and Bama having an embarrassment of riches. In some ways Spurrier is probably a little jealous.
In other ways I think Spurrier might be saying Saban either has too many Blue Chippers and not enough Blue Collar, low profile hard working nose the the grindstone type guys mixed-in with all those Blue Chippers ... or maybe he actually is claiming Saban and his staff is not getting enough outta what they've got. I know Spurrier would not hire Gamecock legacy player/coach Chris Rumpf. But Saban did, with whatever hope that he was going to sign guys like Clowney, one of the Dixon brothers, Brandon Shell, maybe Philip Dukes.
And when Rumpf failed to sign any of those kids, or any of the other SC recruits he was after for that matter, Saban was left with Rumpf the coach ... and that didn't work-out.
So was Saban thinking "recruiting" too much when he hired Rumpf? I mean you gotta "coach'em-up" too, as the HBC is famous for saying.
Hell, Saban is probably admitting that right now to some degree. I've listened to some of his comments and I honestly think he was trying to say that, perhaps, there were some chemistry issues on his team last year. Some of the players sure made comments to that effect. And how many coaches did he tell to go find other jobs?
This post was edited on 7/27/14 at 2:24 pm
1
Posted on 7/27/14 at 2:28 pm to deeprig9
Deeprig9,
I'm not a big fan of starting any freshman player over any upperclassman.
Doesnt mean he can't come in after the first snap of the game is over.
I'm not a big fan of starting any freshman player over any upperclassman.
Doesnt mean he can't come in after the first snap of the game is over.
Posted on 7/27/14 at 2:36 pm to deeprig9
quote:
deeprig9
Except at a few positions talent matters far more, imo. BUT in our league teams are often stacked with both.
There was some analysis I read (numbers guy who is well respected for his stats as they apply to college football) who did an analysis on this for multiple teams across the country using stats over multiple years. Turned out that returning starters didn't matter nearly as much as people think BUT at the same time you did need enough returning players above certain threshold to statistically speaking, improve upon your past season's record.
Also, losing a returning kicker turned out to be the most important loss - really the only one that mattered that much. All this was in degrees but I thought it was interesting given the question.
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:18 pm to Prof
quote:
Also, losing a returning kicker turned out to be the most important loss - really the only one that mattered that much. All this was in degrees but I thought it was interesting given the question.
I can see that being true. Brad wing was key for us in 2011. He constantly flipped field position for us and pinned opponents deep. It allowed our defense to play even more aggressive.
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:29 pm to PortCityTiger82
Yeah i can see that too.
Uga has been spoiled with Bennet, Walsh, and now Morgan.
When you know all you have to do is get to the 40 and receive an automatic 3 points, it opens up a completely different offensive game plan with room for creativity.
Not that Mike Bobo takes advantage of that... but he could..
Uga has been spoiled with Bennet, Walsh, and now Morgan.
When you know all you have to do is get to the 40 and receive an automatic 3 points, it opens up a completely different offensive game plan with room for creativity.
Not that Mike Bobo takes advantage of that... but he could..
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:31 pm to PortCityTiger82
quote:
I can see that being true. Brad wing was key for us in 2011. He constantly flipped field position for us and pinned opponents deep. It allowed our defense to play even more aggressive.
Yeah. I think we tend to forget how damn important a good kicker and/or punter is until we have a sucky one show up. But really it's more than just not sucking - like you said flipping the field but also being able to reach FG range farther out is an enormous advantage to a team.
In some ways, they're like o-lineman in that most fans only notice them when they frick up or if the line is truly extraordinary - just being good usually gets them ignored.
ETA: I can remember guys who could nail coffin corner kicks that often resulted in points. Teams have moved away from that but damn what I sight to see and what an advantage!
This post was edited on 7/27/14 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:35 pm to deeprig9
Varies week to week. Road/home games, level of competition, coaching, game implications, positional, scheme, etc...
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:39 pm to scrooster
One of the strengths of top SEC teams, especially the ground-n-pound ones like LSU and Bama (and in antediluvian days, Tennessee), is they do mix talent with blue-collar very well. Look at the recruiting lists -- you'll see a generous portion of 3 stars (which, for a Vandy fan, calling high 3 stars "blue-collar" seems like twisting the knife) especially in the trenches. Granted, certain positions tend to be undervalued in the rankings, but Spurrier is engaging more in rhetoric than reality if he honestly thinks that most SEC teams don't place a huge premium on experience in the area that really sets them apart -- the lines and occasional d-backs that control the game to an even greater degree than the skill players (where talent actually does trump experience a large percentage of the time.)
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:43 pm to randomways
Points for the use of antediluvian but it's not been that long. 
ETA: You'd have earned even more points for the use of prelapsarian.
ETA: You'd have earned even more points for the use of prelapsarian.
This post was edited on 7/27/14 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 7/27/14 at 3:48 pm to deeprig9
There is a tipping point. There are peopl so athletic they can make up for small mistakes associated with inexperience. And there are people so in athletic t doesn't matter how long they've played they are bad (think jake holland)
Posted on 7/27/14 at 4:34 pm to Prof
quote:
Points for the use of antediluvian but it's not been that long.
ETA: You'd have earned even more points for the use of prelapsarian.
Damn, that one didn't even occur to me. Now I'm going to have to work it into a conversation at some point in the next 24 hours, just because I can.
Posted on 7/27/14 at 4:42 pm to randomways
quote:
Damn, that one didn't even occur to me. Now I'm going to have to work it into a conversation at some point in the next 24 hours, just because I can.
You and I may be the only ones who 'get it' but it's definitely worth it.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 4:49 am to Prof
quote:
quote:
Damn, that one didn't even occur to me. Now I'm going to have to work it into a conversation at some point in the next 24 hours, just because I can.
You and I may be the only ones who 'get it' but it's definitely worth it.
Oh it's so stylish to be so colloquial on a message board....
Posted on 7/28/14 at 10:46 am to BarberitosDawg
quote:
Oh it's so stylish to be so colloquial on a message board....
Do you wish to join the colloquy?
Posted on 7/28/14 at 11:29 am to randomways
quote:
(which, for a Vandy fan, calling high 3 stars "blue-collar" seems like twisting the knif
Posted on 7/28/14 at 11:40 am to deeprig9
talent 10
exp 7
exp 7
This post was edited on 7/28/14 at 11:42 am
Posted on 7/28/14 at 4:20 pm to CrimsonChin
quote:
talent 10
exp 7
Wouldn't that be ideal.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 4:36 pm to scrooster
I am really amazed at some of you guys.
The most difficult position to learn in college football are offensive line positions. Coach Bryant said it best: "You are never going to be a consistent winner until you can throw 21 and 22-year-old men against 18 and 19-year-olds." I completely agree.
They make up nearly a fourth of your team. So that raises the the value of experience. Throw in the defensive backs and it get close to even. Because experience certainly counts here.
Rest is won by talent, being able to play from day 1.
So, all this considered, teamwise. I would say 55 percent talent and 45 percent experience. This is not to say that talent will not improve with experience.Just about every player needs "coaching up." I only remember one at Carolina who didn't: Marcus Lattimore. On the experience side, Melvin Ingram was just a so-so player his first two years, not so his last two, as he made everyone's All America list.
As the Food Lion would say, just my two cents.
The most difficult position to learn in college football are offensive line positions. Coach Bryant said it best: "You are never going to be a consistent winner until you can throw 21 and 22-year-old men against 18 and 19-year-olds." I completely agree.
They make up nearly a fourth of your team. So that raises the the value of experience. Throw in the defensive backs and it get close to even. Because experience certainly counts here.
Rest is won by talent, being able to play from day 1.
So, all this considered, teamwise. I would say 55 percent talent and 45 percent experience. This is not to say that talent will not improve with experience.Just about every player needs "coaching up." I only remember one at Carolina who didn't: Marcus Lattimore. On the experience side, Melvin Ingram was just a so-so player his first two years, not so his last two, as he made everyone's All America list.
As the Food Lion would say, just my two cents.
Posted on 7/28/14 at 5:10 pm to CocknDawg
If i could only choose one, i`d take talent.
By position
Qb: 6-4 talent to xp
Rb: 9-1 talent to xp
Wr: 10-0 talent to xp
Ol: 5-5 talent to xp
Dl: 7-3 talent to xp
Lb: 6-4 talent to xp
Cb: 8-2 talent to xp
Saf: 6-4 talent to xp
By position
Qb: 6-4 talent to xp
Rb: 9-1 talent to xp
Wr: 10-0 talent to xp
Ol: 5-5 talent to xp
Dl: 7-3 talent to xp
Lb: 6-4 talent to xp
Cb: 8-2 talent to xp
Saf: 6-4 talent to xp
Posted on 7/28/14 at 5:24 pm to geaux.home
GREAT NEWS FOR TENNESSEE Amirite?
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