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re: Seed oils make you FAT

Posted on 5/14/24 at 10:26 am to
Posted by TheBoo
South to Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
4552 posts
Posted on 5/14/24 at 10:26 am to
quote:

I came up with the 180 calories because he said he was drinking colas. Each has roughly 180. He likely was drinking several daily so it's more likely 640-720 calories per day he cut.

Again, replace those 720 calories of insulin spiking liquid sugar with 720 calories from proteins and fats and you'd like have similar positive results. At that point, with how easy it is to consume that many sugar calories, you'd likely have a hard time replacing those additional calories with proteins, fats, fruits and vegetables, merely because it's that much harder to eat that many additional calories from those sources in a day.
quote:

My point was that there was no significant difference between hfcs and regular table sugar.

This was not your point. your point was that the weight loss was from calorie decrease alone and that's false.
quote:

Both cause insulin spikes at roughly the same level, but hfcs is discussed as if it is some uniquely dangerous poisonous compound.

I think you need to research a bit more. If you want to get into the weeds a bit. Fructose is much sweeter than sucrose, but it's not even the Fructose that spikes your insulin, its the glucose. The most commonly used HCFS will have a little bit higher level of fructose than table sugar, however the bonded sucrose of table sugar still needs to be broken down into glucose / fructose, and in HCFS the glucose and fructose aren't bonded. You are welcome to find all the studies in the world that gloss over this and say what you said, that the "insulin spikes are roughly the same", but they aren't. The insulin spike will be faster and slightly higher with HFCS because of this, though it may not be massively drastic, it does happen. To zoom out a bit, as I stated previously your body isn't meant to ingest something that sweet, that dense, that fast. The insulin spike rate comparison above isn't even considering the speed of consumption. Consuming 180 calories of sugar containing fruits and vegetables isn't nearly the same as consuming 180 calories from drinking concentrated liquid sugar. On top of that, fruits and vegetables, outside of sugar cane and beets, contain mostly fructose, which doesn't cause anywhere near the insulin spike that glucose does.
quote:

The food pyramid doesn't really matter if you're not over consuming calories. It says to consume in moderation a balanced diet. You will have no problems with that if you eat only 1800-2000 calories per day and actually move about a bit rather than stay in a chair or on a couch all day. All this goes back to consuming fewer calories to lose weight. No gimmicks are needed.

Again, this is incorrect. First you emphasized eating a balanced diet and now you are stating the food pyramid doesn't matter... Making carbs the largest portion of your 2000 calorie diet is the whole damn problem. Just because you lose some weight because you are consuming less crap doesn't mean it's healthy, it just means your body can overcome the amount of crap you are putting in it. That's not a healthy way to live.

Also not considered is the fact that if you eat mainly carbs, and especially drink sugary drinks, in a 2000 calorie "balanced diet", which will generally likely be refined carbs from packaged foods, you will find yourself hunting for more food, as the satiation from carbs is shorter lived than that of proteins, fats, and fruits and vegetables of equal value. So it's easier to put yourself in a position where you are hungry and unhappy because you've already tapped out your calorie limit for the day.

You do you, but stop telling people that the culprit is only calorie surplus, and not sugar and insulin, and the quality of the calories they are consuming.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
32805 posts
Posted on 5/14/24 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Again, this is incorrect. First you emphasized eating a balanced diet and now you are stating the food pyramid doesn't matter... Making carbs the largest portion of your 2000 calorie diet is the whole damn problem. Just because you lose some weight because you are consuming less crap doesn't mean it's healthy, it just means your body can overcome the amount of crap you are putting in it. That's not a healthy way to live.

Also not considered is the fact that if you eat mainly carbs, and especially drink sugary drinks, in a 2000 calorie "balanced diet", which will generally likely be refined carbs from packaged foods, you will find yourself hunting for more food, as the satiation from carbs is shorter lived than that of proteins, fats, and fruits and vegetables of equal value. So it's easier to put yourself in a position where you are hungry and unhappy because you've already tapped out your calorie limit for the day.

You do you, but stop telling people that the culprit is only calorie surplus, and not sugar and insulin, and the quality of the calories they are consuming.

You're getting too much in the weeds, Track caloric intake, eat a decent amount of protein, and if you stay in a calorie deficit you will lose weight.
Posted by WigSplitta22
The Bottom
Member since Apr 2014
1522 posts
Posted on 5/14/24 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

You do you, but stop telling people that the culprit is only calorie surplus, and not sugar and insulin, and the quality of the calories they are consuming.




I think his point was that no matter what foods you eat it all comes down to how much you are consuming. If i eat 2000 calories of pure sugar it's the same as 2000 calories of salad. Yea the sugar is worse for you but it in of itself is not going to make you gain more or less weight than the salad. It's that simple
Posted by Jake88
Member since Apr 2005
68441 posts
Posted on 5/14/24 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

This was not your point. your point was that the weight loss was from calorie decrease alone and that's false
That was my original point way because. Subsequently, my other point was that hfcs is not the devil, as least not more so than regular table sugar...
"Structurally speaking, table sugar (sucrose) and HFCS are very similar and confer both of the same sugars in somewhat similar ratios. The difference between sucrose and the higher end of HFCS fructose content (55%) is practically insignificant with moderate or moderately high consumption.

Assuming a worst case scenario, HFCS can be 55% fructose; for 100g (400kcal) of ingested sugar this would confer an extra 5g of fructose relative to the same amount of calories from sucrose.

It appears that in practical situations the extra fructose load is too insignificant to be practically relevant, and overconsumption of HFCS to a degree where the fructose may be practicall relevant is associated with overconsumption of sugar in general."

quote:

Again, replace those 720 calories of insulin spiking liquid sugar with 720 calories from proteins and fats and you'd like have similar positive results
You're not going to lose a significant amount of weight by replacing calories with calories, even if they are better calories.

quote:

Just because you lose some weight because you are consuming less crap doesn't mean it's healthy, it just means your body can overcome the amount of crap you are putting in it. That's not a healthy way to live
We are talking weight loss. As I said, to reduce weight, you really only beed to limit caloric intake. "Healthy" is subjective. You can eat exactly to the standards you're advocating and I can eat to mine and you can't say you're going to be healthier because at that point lifestyle and activities come into play. I only watch calories and really monitor nothing else, but in my 50s I can run a half marathon under 2 hours and have a pulse of 38-46bpm with great blood pressure.
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